onemorecast
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![[*]](./images/greyalliance2/default_icon.gif) posted on 8/7/10 at 14:42 |
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New to fly fishing the surf
Hello,
I'm new to this board and new to fly fishing the surf. I've been playing around with connections and lines and thought .. this would be a good
place to ask for opinions. What type of shooting heads \ sinking heads do you recommend? Do you make your own? What weight? As to running line,
do you use spectra \ thin diameter fly line? What do you use for connections?
thanks
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hiptothat
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| posted on 8/7/10 at 18:17 |
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What type of shooting heads \ sinking heads do you recommend?
I recommend a type 6 sink shooting head.
Do you make your own?
I do make my own using T-8, T-11. Those are for use with my 7 to 10 weight rods. I use a T-14 shooting head for my 12 weight.
What weight?
I have several from 240 grain up to 330 grain and the T-14 is 420 grain.
As to running line, do you use spectra \ thin diameter fly line?
My preferred running line is braided but I'm not the norm. It is more common to use a poly shoot running line.
What do you use for connections?
Since I use a braided running line I insert the shooting head into the running line and secure with a few nail knots. On the other end I make a
braided loop by threading the braided running line back into itself to form a loop and secure with nail knots.
If you go the poly running line route you can make a pretty smooth connection with a braided sleeve and some nail knots. You can also do a simple
loop to loop connection.
There are many effective ways to rig for the surf it's a matter of preference.
Welcome to the surf and good luck. jon
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Kevin
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| posted on 9/7/10 at 13:24 |
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Hey Onemore,
A lot of us use the SA Streamer Express fly line. I use a 200 grain with my 6 weight almost exclusively, even when I should be using a 300 grain with
my 8 weight. Somewhere in that range is where most people get comfortable.
As to connections, I nail knot a one-foot butt section of 20 lb mono to the fly line, and put a loop in the other end of the mono. Then I
loop-to-loop (surgeon's or perfection loops) another short "mid" section (2-3 feet) of 15 lb to the butt section. For tippet, I'll attach a
straight shot of 3 to 6 feet of 8 lb mono. The tippet is connected using to the mid section using either loop-to-loop or a double surgeon's knot.
If I'm fishing two flies, which is often, I will either tie a dropper loop about 2 feet up the tippet, or tie on another section of tippet with a
surgeon's knot and use the tag ends to attach flies.
I change out the tippet after almost every outing, I change out the mid section after about every 8-10 sessions, and I change out everything every 6
months or so.
Point the rod at the fly and strip set! - Kevin
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Steve_P
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| posted on 10/7/10 at 06:06 |
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Great info already from Hip and Kevin. Here is
my take.
I fish with integrated SA Streamer Express, Airflo
Depthfinder, and Rio Outbound lines now in
the surf (mostly 200 or 250 grains on a 6 wt, but 300 on
a 6-8 wt for bigger surf,
and 150 on a 5 wt for very small surf and big corbina).
Frankly, I think you could do quite well in the SoCal surf year round
with just one line, a 300 grain Airflo Depthfinder, or maybe
an Outbound short, fast sinking head, intermediate sink
running line...(or nearly equivalently, and more cheaply, 25 lb Amnesia or 50 lb Slickshooter with 28 ft of Rio T11).
I nail knot a 12-18" chunk of 25-30 lb Ande on the fly line
to serve as a leader butt - perfection or Kreh loop on the
end. I used to use straight 6-8 lb Maxima to the leader
butt, but these days, especially for longer leaders, I loop to loop a tapered leader
to the leader butt for better
casting performance with small flies, and attach
6-10 lb Rio fluoro tippet on the leader with a triple-through
surgeon's knot. Total length of the leader-tippet combo
is typically 6-9 ft for all purpose, 8 ft for sight fishing to corbina, and 9-12 ft for blind casting during
corbina season (May-July or so).
For a couple of years early on I fished Cortland LC13 (leadcore
13 grains per foot) heads on 25 lb Amnesia. To make small
junctions, I nailknotted the Amnesia to the LC13, and nailknotted
an 18" butt section of 30 lb Ande on the fly side, then a
perfection or Kreh loop for a loop to loop connection to
the leader. I used 100 ft of
Amnesia (half of a 200 ft spool that goes for about $4). I
connected 20 lb dacron backing to the Amnesia with an Albright
knot. 20 lb dacron backing is fine for all surf fishing where your
tippets are typically 6-12 lb or so. Alternately, for a while, I put braided loops on
both ends of the LC13 and made simple loop to loop connections, but I had a tendency of not replacing the loops as often as necessary, and they were
very bulky looking, and found simpler connections more easily maintained.
It really helps to get the fly on the bottom in the surf and the
LC13 combined with thin Amnesia running line did that like gangbusters...even in higher surf... Of the integrated lines,
the Airflo Depthfinder has a similar configuration (fast sinking
head with thin running line), and the newer Outbound lines
are similar. The running line on the Streamer Expresses
is thicker I think.
Amnesia has a bad rep for tangling, and it does, but you
can avoid most of the hassle by soaking it in water overnight
before a trip - nylon takes up 9% or so water and becomes
limp and manageable - pretty much. I submerged the reel
spool in a bowl of water - other guys wetted a cloth and
wrapped it around the line on the spool, and held it on
by wrapping the leader around it. If you fish it 2 or 3
times a week, you can get away with a 1-2 hour soak
before a session. Water in your stripping basket helps
keep it hydrated during a fishing session.
It also helps to replace Amnesia every 3-6 months or so depending on how much you fish it.
I also played with other running lines, including Gudebrod
braided butt leader. If you connect it as Hip does, by
working it over the head, it makes a nice compact connection
that goes through the guides smoothly,
but it is permanent and does not allow you to exchange shooting heads for
different situations which is fine especially in the surf.
If you don't like these, standard running lines in different
diameters, most often near .023" and .031" are available from
Rio and SA.
Lately, with a larger selection of rod weights, and higher prices
of integrated fly lines, and more waters I want to fish,
I have been thinking of using 50 lb Rio
Slick Shooter with a selection of 30 ft or so heads:
the Rio T lines - T8, 11, 14, and
17, as well as a floater and intermediate head. I will
put a small loop in the heads, if not already there, by
doubling it over and using 2 nail knots, and a loop in the
Slickshooter with a bimini or triple surgeons loop. This makes a
very versatile combo for fishing surf, bays, and inshore waters.
Nick Curcione recently told me this is still his go-to fishing
system for surf and inshore fishing.
Note that in putting together these systems, you want the
tippet to be the weakest link. For example, don't use 20
lb Amnesia for running line and a 20 lb tippet - a break in
the Amnesia would mean a loss of your shooting head...
For more details about knots for constructing bombproof fly line and leader
systems, track
down the late Bill Nash's book or video on the complete
fly line system. Dan Blanton's site has a reference to it.
Steve_P
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FishingEd
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| posted on 10/7/10 at 06:48 |
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I am pretty satisfied with the Rio Striper Lines and the Airflo Depthfinders in 200-300 grain weights for the surf. Like the many who fish the surf,
I use 6-8 weight rods and these lines work well for me.
As far as connections, I use 50# braided leader butt to make loops. I then feed these loops onto the ends of the fly line, use a couple of nail knots
to secure the loops and dab some Pliobond onto the nail knots. That is it.
Attach 6 or so feet of level tippet to one end of the fly line and the other to your backing and you are ready to rock.
Ed
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onemorecast
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| posted on 10/7/10 at 08:11 |
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thank you all for the info.... still trying to absorb all of it but really enjoying "this side" of fly fishing. One more question, as to rods; do
you prefer medium or fast tapered \ action rods? I used to fish the fly on small lakes \ streams in the Mid West and used medium action rods
exclusively.
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hiptothat
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| posted on 10/7/10 at 11:30 |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by onemorecast
thank you all for the info.... still trying to absorb all of it but really enjoying "this side" of fly fishing. One more question, as to rods; do
you prefer medium or fast tapered \ action rods? I used to fish the fly on small lakes \ streams in the Mid West and used medium action rods
exclusively. |
The general preference for the surf is a fast action rod.
Fast action rods work well to handle the abrupt loads of a shooting head and can handle over lining better. Having a rod with some backbone can be an
advantage landing fish in the surf zone when you need it.
Not to say you can't use a medium action rod for the surf.
You just need to adjust your cast and match it with the right amount of grain weight so you don't over power your stick. Also, you may feel more
comfortable with a medium action rod for sight fishing.
I fish with a medium action 5 weight and it's been good to me.
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FishingEd
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| posted on 15/7/10 at 20:01 |
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I generally use a faster action rod for making longer blind casts. However, like hip said, using a slower rod would be advantageous in a sight
fishing situation. For the most part, I just make the longest casts I can muster to areas that might hold fish. I am not saying you must make long
casts to catch fish, but sometimes it does help.
Ed
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studybreak
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| posted on 16/7/10 at 09:22 |
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I have only been fishing the surf for three years, so I don't have nearly the experience some of these other guys do, but here is my experience thus
far:
Rod Action:
My wife and I both fish 6 wts. Mine is an older Sage with a medium action, and hers is a fast action Cabela's rod. I prefer to fish with hers. In
my three years in the surf I've only had 2 days where I was legitimately sight-fishing to corbina - and I got skunked both days! Normally I want a
rod that will cast as far as possible, so the fast action is nice. That being said, the medium action rod is MY rod, which I fish even when I could be
using my wife's rod, and it works great. If you already have quality medium action rods, in no way would I recommend investing in a fast action rod
just for surf purposes.
Lines: Here I really do have preferences.
I fish two lines on my 6wt: a SA 200 gr Streamer Express integrated line and a 30 ft section of T-8 (240gr. total) with a braided mono running line.
When possible, I fish the T-8 line. I tried a Frog Hair running line, which I assume would be similar to amnesia or suffix, but I had a hard time
handling it. Although I could cast it a mile, it was too slick in my hands, and I would miss too many strikes and drop too many casts with it. I
switched to a braided mono running line and have never looked back. I love it. It is a good compromise between the feel of an intergrated line and
the shootability of a mono running line.
Why do I prefer the shooting head system?
1. I have much better contact with my flies with a braded mono running line. This is BY FAR the most important reason I prefer to fish the shooting
head system. The floating running line on the SA Streamer Express rides the waves and gets moved around by the breaks in the surf, causing me to lose
contact with my flies. The straight mono lines cut right through the waves giving great feel, and the braided mono cuts through the waves well too,
which is my #1 reason for fishing it.
2. The T-8 sinks faster. In my experience the #2 factor after being able to feel the flies is to have your flies on the bottom. 60-70 percent of
the time my integrated line doesn't get the flies deep enough. Having the T-8 to get the flies down really helps. On the flip side, the other 30-40
percent of the time the T-8 just drags along the bottom, and I use the integrated line. It definitely has its place!
3. I can cast it about 15 feet further. (This is in part due to the extra weight of the 240gr line over the 200gr line. If/when I were to buy
another integrated head for my 6wt it will be 250gr.) You can occasionally catch fish right at your feet, but launching it out there definitely
helps, especially with fish like yellow-fin croaker.
4. It is cheaper to replace. I'm still in school - getting negative rich. I can replace the braided running line or the T-8 cheap. In addition, in
my experience they have held up better.
5. If you do want to change heads and don't have an extra spool, you only need to change the heads insteads of the entire system.
Again, this is just from my limited experience - take it for what its worth. Enjoy learning the surf - it a completely different game than the
tailwaters I used to fish back home, but I've learned to enjoy it, and it has made me a better fisherman.
-Kirk
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